The Duchess of Sussex and the GRAMMY-winning singer had a chat during episode 2 of the 'Archetypes' podcast.
Meghan Markle’s conversation with one of entertainment’s biggest “divas” took a deeper look at the word. During episode 2 of her Archetypes podcast, the Duchess of Sussex and her guest, Mariah Carey, examined the complexities that come with being called a “diva” and how the GRAMMY-winning pop star has embraced it.
When asked by the duchess what kind of connotation the word has, Carey explained that it’s “both” positive and negative, but she has embraced the glam in the term.
“I think it's both for me,” the “Honey” singer said. "I do because, I mean, I know the origin of the word. But then, I was growing up, like I said, my mom was talking about a friend or ‘something was so and so,’ it was very much that diva.”
“I didn't know if that was bad good. That's how she's built. Like, it's very much the grandeur of it all is what I envision. I was glad I bought the word glamorize and fabulous and whatever. And then like, as things evolved, you know, the past I guess, whatever 20 years...it became like a diva for me," she explained.
“They mean, you're a successful woman usually. But also, and forgive me if we're not allowed to say the b-word but a B-I-T-C-H. Like, it's not OK for you to be a boss. It's not OK for you to be a strong woman, you know what I mean?” she added.
At one point, Carey -- who has embraced the word on her own terms -- took a moment to adorn the duchess with the title, who needed to know what diva qualities she saw in her.
After talking about Carey’s infamous MTV Cribs episode, Markle noted that the diva term is not something that she “connects to,” and Carey disagreed.
“You give us diva moments sometimes, Meghan,” she quipped. The duchess laughed it off, asking, “What kind of diva moments do I give you?”
Carey, 53, noted, “It’s the visual. But let's pretend that you weren't so beautiful and didn't have the whole thing and didn't often have gorgeous ensembles. You wouldn't maybe get as much divas too."
The "Emotions" singer added, "I don't care. I'm like, when I can, I'm gonna give you diva.”
Following the episode, Markle explained that she was taken aback in the moment and how Carey easily read the situation, and reassured her that she was being endearing and not using the word in a negative light.
“When she called me a diva, you couldn't see me obviously, but I started to sweat a little bit,” she said about the playful moment. “My mind genuinely was just spinning with what nonsense. She must have read or clicked on to make her say that. I just kept thinking in that moment, 'Was my girl crush coming to a quick demise? Does she actually not see me?’"
Markle noted that Carey must have heard the nervousness in her voice and clarified her comments, giving her some reassurance.
“So she must have felt my nervous laughter and you all would have heard it too, and she jumped right in to make sure I was crystal clear when she said diva, she was talking about the way that I dress, the posture of clothing,” she said.
“The quote-unquote fabulousness, as she sees it. She meant diva as a compliment, but I heard it as a dig. I heard it as the word diva, as I think of it. But in that moment, as she explained to me, she meant it as chic, as aspirational, and how one very charged word can mean something different for each of us. It's mind-blowing to me," she added. "And it actually made me realize that in these episodes, as I've opened the door for conversation surrounding the archetypes, that they try to hold us back. What I hadn't considered was that for some, reclaiming the words is what they feel will propel us forward."